swarb.co.uk

Pershing UK has now stated that all US persons, which includes people born in the UK, but in addition to having a British passport, may also have a US passport because one of their parents was a US citizen, will have to close their accounts by Sept 2010. It doesn' seem to matter that the person may have lived his entire life in the UK. Other firms are expected to follow but have not gone public yet and are waiting. These are well know British brokerage and wealth management firms.

What will the FSA say to this in line with their Treating Customers Fairly regulations?

What will the UK Gov't say to this in line with the Race Relations Act of 1976 as amended 2003? It specifically mentions Nationality and Nation of Origin.

Well, who do we think will default first, the UK or The USA ? Only this week the UK's banking/debt, has been downgraded to match Chile's .

What happens when countries default of their debts to foreign owners ? I guess our assets will be claimed. Still, I've always wanted to learn Chinese !


mushi mushi.....

I think you have to provide a proper source for this.

It was in response to questions put to them by WealthBriefing.com in their 21st December 09 issue. I can copy and paste the article privately if you would like. I might be able to do it on this site as the article does allow you to email it to other people. Because you can send it by email, I'm not sure about the copyright. I have already been told via telephone that I will have to close my account by my firm who clears thru Pershing. I haven't received an official letter yet, but it will come at some point.

I think you are being led up the garden path.

Do you mean you don't think it is true? I sent the article to you via dswarb. Let me know if you receive it properly.

Hi,

Took a little while but:-
http://taxplus.mercerhole.co.uk/2009/05/articles/under-debate/americans-with-foreign-bank-accounts-doing-business-in-the-us-do-you-need-to-make-an-fbar-report/

Bacically (as I read it) there's no compulsion for a UK Bank to close a US citizen's account, however, there is need for the FBAR (if necessary) - this is a US tax requirement for US Citizens.
I suspect that a number of banks will not want the cost/inconvenience of possible investigation by the US IRS.
I note that some of the Swiss banks are now operating two services - one specially for US Citizens after the US forced their way into the Swiss banks for account details.

I'd suspect that there will be some banks who will continue wiht accounts, others may take a company decision that it's not something they want.

Although there is anti-discrimination legislation, it's not designed for cases where a foreign goventment tries to override local banking laws.

CP09

The Swiss Banks did not open their accounts as such, and when the US authorities did have the right info clients were told before they were allowed to have a look - no history of accounts were made available. They just moved them to another Bank !! Most of these Swiss accounts are not opened in peoples names - only numbers

Many thanks for all your comments.
RE: FBAR reports --- I appreciate the time you spent finding out about FBARS. However, that isn't why a UK firm would close US persons accounts. Individuals have to do their own FBARs, nothing to do with the firm they are dealing with. The problem, according to Pershing UK and other firms which haven't gone public yet but will soon, is that they don't want the extra expense of issuing a form called a 1099. This form just lists your interest, any dividends, and capital gains/loses for the year. Pershing UK has this information on hand and, in fact, already have the technology with their sister company Pershing US. Pershing and the others are trying to justify discriminating against a group of people of a certain nationality on the basis of cost. I find this reprehensible and obscene. Hopefully, somewhere there is a law in this country which can prevent this happening, at least, under that justification.

Sio it is not US citizens being forced to close accounts, it is a ban deciding that it no longer wants US citizens as customers. There is a huge difference.

Being a USA citizen has no connection with race, so no racial element exists.

Nor is it to do with human rights. This is a commercial decision made by a private company.

But could one then say, as in the past, we, in England, don't want to let out a flat to people from Ireland, because it cost more money to do background checks?

US people are a nationality surely. The RRA mentions nationality and nation of origin as part of the definition of race. Could Pershing turn around and say we don't want to deal with Pakistanis, for whatever reason?

Depends on how it defined 'Pakistani'. If the definition was 'persons who hold a Pakistani passport', then possibly yes.

Then, in accordance with the RRA, that would potentially be indirect discrimination as differentiated from direct. I have done some more research and it seems likely that the EHRC could be interested. Well, at least there is a form that we need to send to them once we get our official letters. They will have to put the reason why they don't think it is discriminatory. That's a start anyway. They could possibly be filling in 10s of thousands of these. Maybe some law firm will pick this up and get thousands of American's together in one big class action legal suit.

I appreciate all your comments guys. Some good info coming out. Not exactly what I want to hear, but then that would be too easy. If too easy, then probably not worth it.

Human Rights law is about the relationship between the state and the individual. This bank is not the state.

Sorry DLS. You have lost me somewhere. I think I only mentioned the FSA and the UK Race Relations Act. I don't think I said anything about The Human Rights Act or Law.

The authority for racial equality, as I understand it, is the Equality and Human Rights Commission which now consists of the Commission for Racial Equality and others. Merged together, I think, in 2004. My question is: Can this company and the expected other companies refuse services to a segment of UK society based on their nationality or differences from the majority of the society?